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Announcements => Articles and Books => Topic started by: admin on March 27, 2010, 02:17:54 PM

Title: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: admin on March 27, 2010, 02:17:54 PM
Now that the health care reform bill has been enacted into law, President Obama's next job is to answer one simple question. Where's the beef? 

After a year of feckless Democratic cat herding and insidious Republican hate mongering, all Obama can say for now is, "this isn't radical reform, but it is major reform." So what will this major reform look like?

Between now and 2014, over 2 million American families will continue to find major reform in the bankruptcy courts. 

http://yowusa.com/humanity/2010/humanity-2010-03a/1.shtml
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Archangel on March 28, 2010, 02:42:26 PM
I absolutely agree  :'(.  My wife is a Nurse Practitioner and says that it will harm over a third of the American people.  Mainly the elderly and the very sick.  And don't forget that if you can't afford to buy health insurance your going to pay a fine if you have to see a doctor or go to the hospital.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Linda on March 28, 2010, 04:10:09 PM
Your article Marshall is, I'm afraid to say, pretty accurate. This whole debacle of a health care bill makes me ill, (and I can't afford to get ill, LOL).  I have 5 children, and at this point only 1 of them has health care (they are all adults). As a matter of fact, my husband and I lose our health care every year when he gets laid off for 4 to 6 months. This has been going on for 3 years now. It's like playing Russian roulette with our health. This year I had a bad flare up of ulcerative colitis while he was laid off, the medicine alone (and that was only a quanity of 20) was $350.  We have had health care all of our adult lives, we have worked hard to make a living for ourselves, and now at 60 yrs, we have to deal with this stress.  We are too young to retire, too young for medicare, and too old to find another job that is more secure with benefits. I know we are one of many, this is insane, especially when we spent billions to rebuild Iraq and all the other complimentary sh*t we do for other countries at our expense.

Well that's my say on the subject, sometimes I think our govt needs to collapse to get rid of the criminals and the corruption.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Initalone on March 28, 2010, 06:05:03 PM
I know any fee, if you are just getting by, would be devastating.  If I understand correctly, the amount you would be responsible for varies based on income. If you earn less than $88,000 , the gov would subsidize your payments, I assume based on income.  And, the changes will not even take place until 2014......will it all matter then?  My gripe is that help is needed now.  Many folks are not getting much needed medical treatment for fear of financial ruin.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Lori on March 28, 2010, 06:23:52 PM
Part of the plan is to limit Doctors pay.  With this I feel that many good Doctors will leave the field and the not so good will stay on.  This is very dangerous in light of all the medical malpractice suits happening.  And think about this. If any one chooses to have elective laser eye surgery to improve their vision, the fees for this voluntary treatment will be outrageous.  Another thing is this will give the IRS access to your medical savings account,  This could bankrupt many Americans trying to save.

I'm going to start and envelope fund instead of having it in a bank.  I just actually feel safer having it here under my control, not under the governments control.

Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Archangel on March 28, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I've been rat holing cash for years now Lori.  I have a big green Safe but with the economy the way it has been even the safe is pretty empty now except for firearm, ammo and knives.  LOL thank goodness for them  ;D.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Lori on March 29, 2010, 06:44:24 AM
We haven't been able to save do to a debt we had, but we paid that debt off this past month.  If my husbands job continues, I plan to take the money that we were paying with the debt and locking it away too.  I have to get one of those safes.  ;D

They are saying that we need to start buying gold.  Or other fine metals.  I just may do this too.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Icon on March 29, 2010, 09:11:10 AM
  I have a big green Safe but with the economy the way it has been even the safe is pretty empty now except for firearm, ammo and knives.  LOL thank goodness for them  ;D.
Ammo may be the next currency,, can't have to much of it.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Yowbarb on March 29, 2010, 09:28:02 AM
ICON now we are in total agreement on that. People need to be prepared to protect themselves, big time.
Blessings,

- Yowbarb
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Icon on March 29, 2010, 11:55:18 AM
I don't want to get political, but my views are this,,, We have two political parties to give people the illusion of choice.
When is the last time either party ever said.."Hey, let's give the people back some of their freedoms and rights"?
The only difference, is the speed of the train as it heads to the crash.

Look for huge taxes on things that "cause" health issues. such as guns and ammo. Kinda like the sin tax on cigarettes and alcohol.

This bill gives the government the means to get into every aspect of our lives... it's about control, not healthcare.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Archangel on March 29, 2010, 05:44:11 PM
On the other hand different opinions can be healthy.  Just like on survival,  I believe that we will have to revert back to the way man lived 10,000 years ago.  Man was a hunter and gatherer migrating to survive.  I believe that our shelters and storage of food and water will only be for the initial catastrophe plus enough to get started again.  After whatever happens whether it be by flood's or scorched earth, we will have to come out and adapt to the environment like our ancestors did.  I believe that my group will be far ahead of the game by hunting and gathering as we migrate to survive.  I would hope that the area that we sheltered ourselves before it happens would be the most likely area to settle (and we'd be there) but since we don't know we are prepared to survive along the way.

Again this is just an opinion but by me posting it others may not have thought of it that way and my post may have sparked a new idea.   
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Icon on March 29, 2010, 09:03:53 PM
Archangel, I would love to go back to the old Indian way of life,, if I could just keep my A/C.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Bvann on March 29, 2010, 10:13:54 PM
Yeah! And a big glass of ICE tea on a hot summer day. You know, this could become a big list. Probably the people who
will do best in the future will be those who are too young to remember all the comforts and goodies that we have today.

This is why I want A LOT of engineers and inventors to be around post 2012. I want an ice making machine!
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Archangel on March 30, 2010, 05:38:06 AM
Archangel, I would love to go back to the old Indian way of life,, if I could just keep my A/C.

Me to Icon LOL.  And like fox I'd like to have a wish list too but...............................
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: admin on March 30, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
1969quartz0 -- Delete this thread?  "Hell no." 

It is 2010 folks.  Wakey wakey.  This pig doesn't squeal until 2014 which means it serves only one purpose between now and 2012/2013.  To milk more cash out of the middle class so the elites can build their bunkers.  That is what this about.  If you think otherwise, you're playing into the bluff.

Marshall
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Icon on March 30, 2010, 09:10:46 PM
1969quartz0 -- Delete this thread?  "Hell no." 

It is 2010 folks.  Wakey wakey.  This pig doesn't squeal until 2014 which means it serves only one purpose between now and 2012/2013.  To milk more cash out of the middle class so the elites can build their bunkers.  That is what this about.  If you think otherwise, you're playing into the bluff.

Marshall
I have said this a few times now. And I think there is 3-400 billion still unspent from the stimulus. Wonder where that is? And I also read somewhere that the Federal Reserve made a huge loan to someone, and won't release the details.....hmmmm.......
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Linda on March 31, 2010, 05:05:18 AM
The really sad state is they are blatant regarding their actions, they just don't give a sh*t whether you believe the lie or not at this point. I think the government is on a roll, this will not be the last massive bill that gets pushed through and rammed down our throats. The whole country needs to wakey wakey.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Indigo2u on March 31, 2010, 07:51:25 AM
1969quartz0 -- Delete this thread?  "Hell no." 

It is 2010 folks.  Wakey wakey.  This pig doesn't squeal until 2014 which means it serves only one purpose between now and 2012/2013.  To milk more cash out of the middle class so the elites can build their bunkers.  That is what this about.  If you think otherwise, you're playing into the bluff.

Marshall


Wow!  Thank you Marshall - I see it! Makes total sense. I was wondering why this progam's cash harvesting provision was implemented so fast while its actual services provision would take several years. 
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Bvann on March 31, 2010, 08:05:53 AM
Marshall,

Absolutely this is a money maker for our government. And a control mechanism. Next they will push through
Cap and Tax (THEY call it Cap and Trade) which will primarily put more money in the hands of the government
and other high mucky mucks.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Equiano on March 31, 2010, 09:09:48 AM
Great article Marshall. Coming from the perspective of someone who has comprehensive universal health care, free at the point of delivery AKA the National Health Service, I have to watch my Grandma and other members of my family in the US being slaughtered by insane prices for their prescription medicines...here in the UK the same medication that costs my Grandma thousands of $'s per month  would only cost
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Icon on March 31, 2010, 11:39:55 AM


Between now and 2014, over 2 million American families will continue to find major reform in the bankruptcy courts.

http://yowusa.com/humanity/2010/humanity-2010-03a/1.shtml (http://yowusa.com/humanity/2010/humanity-2010-03a/1.shtml)
Was listening to someone talking about the $8000 credit for home loans and got me to thinking.
The credit ends in April, so after that, everyone who was even thinking of buying a home, already has. So I am thinking the housing market will fall flat on it's face after that, even worse than before...
I am inclined to think, that a lot of people who bought homes with the credit, will find out their house, has just lost a lot of value...
And also a lot of people who bought homes just because of the credit thinking they could afford them, only to find out they can't, will learn the ups and downs of an upside down mortgage when they try to get out from under them.
I have saw several people lately trying to do a short sale, and their homes are worth so little now, that even with the bank accepting a short sale, the bank still requiring thousands of dollars on the owners part. One will still owe 25K after doing the short sale.
I think this credit may just be creating another bubble that's gonna burst in a few months.
But then, if everyone is in debt for homes, cars, boats etc., and then the economy is crashed, the bankers will own most everything when people can't pay for it.
And thanks to fractional banking, it will not have cost them anything to do it.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Seeker on March 31, 2010, 02:24:09 PM
Did you know that the health care reform bill passed on the same exact date that the Georgia guidestones were erected (March, 22, 1980)?
Is this just a coincidence... or perhaps not?
This bill fits with the goals inscribed on these stones?
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Archangel on March 31, 2010, 02:34:13 PM
I hope that there are enough tough AG's to fight this thing. I know one defense that the Federal Government is going to use.  They'll tell the state that it requires people to insure there auto and this is the same thing.  Well thats 2 totally different things.  Driving is a privilege not a right or a requirement so the state can regulate what you must have to be able to do it.  Now requiring everyone to have medical insurance  just because you were born in the U.S.?  Thats a totally different story and all the Attorney's I know (Dem and Rep) say its unconstitutional.

The government wants to get there hands into our savings and if I read it right, now they can.  Yes its a money making thing and wait till you need some surgery.  Can anyone say "Selection"?  Will the cost of the surgery benefit the community as a whole?  It's bad folks and I hope the Supreme Court sticks with the constitution and not an agenda.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: admin on March 31, 2010, 05:44:45 PM
Did you know that the health care reform bill passed on the same exact date that the Georgia guidestones were erected (March, 22, 1980)?
Is this just a coincidence... or perhaps not?
This bill fits with the goals inscribed on these stones?

Way to go seeker.  That will be a nice sound bite for my radio interviews.   8)
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: 1969quartz0 on March 31, 2010, 08:36:03 PM
Marshall sorry if I upset you it was not my intent, as I said before I should not have said a thing I was not questioning the topic itself, I have strong feelings not in favor of the bill and do not believe our government is looking out for us but only for themselves. My only reason was Yowbarb and a few others have hope this will help and so many truly dislike it and I thought infighting on this might be a bad thing, but maybe the venting will be a good thing. Marshall I did not remember that it was you that started this when I posted and I understand if you did not like what was going on you could end it at anytime. I did not intend to offend anyone especially you, I know you can end my account with the push of a button, that I hope you will not do. My intention was good peace!!!

Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: admin on March 31, 2010, 09:16:53 PM
Hi 1969quartz0:

Am I angry with you.  "Hell no!" No worries. You did not upset me in the least.  This thread has been a source of research material. 

What I see with the health reform is a cruel betrayal.  The revenue comes before 2012 and the service after.  That's a pure swindle of the middle class.  (Keep in mind, I'm a single payer guy.)

Here is what I learned from this thread already.  Most do not understand how they've been played.  Even those who get it (re 2012) and want to get through it.  Most everyone has restated their well hashed out position on the matter.  However, a few -- saw it.  That's how slick this thing was worked. 

I've taken the article link on the home page at yowusa.com because while the article is very popular, it is so wrapped up in a hack topic that it winds up being a distraction for most.  Back to basics.

Cheers, Marshall


 

Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Bvann on March 31, 2010, 09:25:58 PM
Equiano

"Is that the result of the bill being watered down to get it passed....? 200 amendments to the bill and not a single Republican voted for it....was it worth watering down..?"

Republican votes were not needed. They were negotiating with members of their own party. Democrats had a majority
in the House and a filibuster proof majority in the senate (when the senate bill was passed). They could have passed
anything they wanted to IF there was agreement in their own party. The purpose of this bill is to raise money AND as
a distraction to "the masses" (what the elite think of us).

There will be more money making schemes and distractions to come.

fox
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: admin on April 01, 2010, 12:02:31 PM
Equiano

"The purpose of this bill is to raise money AND as a distraction to "the masses" (what the elite think of us).

There will be more money making schemes and distractions to come.

Absolutely.  The next big bill will be energy.  Like health, it too will be revenue on this side of 2012 and service on the other side.  When people wake up to this, it will all be over but the crying.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Archangel on April 01, 2010, 02:14:10 PM
I saw today where Obama signed an order for minimum mpg's for new cars and trucks.  Car's 39mpg and trucks 30mpg.  I guess will have to pay a sin tax if our old clunkers can't match that.  Really people, who knows what there going to do next.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Linda on April 01, 2010, 02:28:17 PM
Whats next is a value added tax, I believe it's in the works now. That would bring in a lot of revenue.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Montanabarb on April 02, 2010, 03:53:58 PM
My question is: What will be left to hunt or gather?  All living things will suffer the same fate as mankind.  In the last year, Mongolia has lost over four million head of horses and cattle to drought and a tough winter.  That represents the livlihood of an entire culture. Just an example. 
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Archangel on April 02, 2010, 07:14:59 PM
Animal life and vegetation has survived in the past (we have too).  What part will depend on what type (s) of events.  I was watching a professor speak about how man evolved.  He should several vid's and slide shows and he has come to the conclusion based on geology that major events like meteor strikes, floods and droughts made man adapt and evolve to his environment.  He believes that it is our nature to adapt to almost any environment.
Title: Re: Health Care Reform and 2012
Post by: Bvann on April 05, 2010, 08:10:18 PM
Fox said:

The purpose of this bill is to raise money AND as
a distraction to "the masses" (what the elite think of us).

There will be more money making schemes and distractions to come.

My head is spinning with the speed this is happening! I do not know if the LEVEL of taxation stated
in this article is correct but we do not need ANY increased costs right now. Also where is our democratic
process in this decision?

admin said:

Absolutely.  The next big bill will be energy.  Like health, it too will be revenue on this side of 2012 and service on the other side.  When people wake up to this, it will all be over but the crying.


So here it comes:

"Obama to Crush Economy with Massive CO2 Taxes as Early as Next Week"

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/21566 (http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/21566)

Fox