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Author Topic: Saturn's unaffected orbit  (Read 16310 times)

MrMexBiker

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Saturn's unaffected orbit
« on: June 16, 2011, 10:24:47 PM »
Leonid Elenin recently created a simulation that increased the size of Elenin to that of a dwarf star (we know its not but many believe a dwarf star or large planet may be near it). He wanted to demonstrate it's effect on Saturn's orbit when such a large mass may have passed by in 2008.  As you would guess it would have disrupted Saturn's orbit. It did not. SydneyStargazers.com have been taking pics both in the past and in an ongoing effort to document Elenin for us as their telescopes are well situated. They agreed with the simulation's premise and concluded with Leonid Elenin that no large object passed by at this time as it's effect on Saturn's orbit was not evident. If you believe that such a large object (pick a name) is near Elenin and following it's path toward earth please explain why such disruption did not happen. If it did not happen then it may not happen near earth as perhaps it does not exist. At least not at this time. Additionally such a large object should reflect light either from the comet or sun but they don't see it. We don't need infrared detection at this point.

ASEEKERTOO

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 08:32:15 AM »
Leonid Elenin recently created a simulation that increased the size of Elenin to that of a dwarf star (we know its not but many believe a dwarf star or large planet may be near it). He wanted to demonstrate it's effect on Saturn's orbit when such a large mass may have passed by in 2008.  As you would guess it would have disrupted Saturn's orbit. It did not. SydneyStargazers.com have been taking pics both in the past and in an ongoing effort to document Elenin for us as their telescopes are well situated. They agreed with the simulation's premise and concluded with Leonid Elenin that no large object passed by at this time as it's effect on Saturn's orbit was not evident. If you believe that such a large object (pick a name) is near Elenin and following it's path toward earth please explain why such disruption did not happen. If it did not happen then it may not happen near earth as perhaps it does not exist. At least not at this time. Additionally such a large object should reflect light either from the comet or sun but they don't see it. We don't need infrared detection at this point.
   Basically, people have been searching for some kind of 'Rogue' object out there because of the changes in
Earths behaviour and of the other planets within the Solar System. It appears as though something is not right
out there. I will not list the strange occurences on Earth and on the other planets that make ordinary people, And
NASA, to begin an effort to try and find an anomaly affecting us. But I will make a comment here and there about
a change or two.

   All people are doing is good ole Detective work. Or another comparison is what a Mechanic does when looking
for a noise in an engine. Each has their own tools for solving the problem. An ordinary person will use whatever
tools are available to sort through information to solve a riddle.

  As to a Brown dwarf or failed star that is supposed to be behind Elenin; I'll leave that for others to touch on.
Elenin is the main object in my mind to consider. It looks like a comet but the effects it SEEMS to be having
on the Earth by aligning in a certain way with Earth and other planets is significant.

  Saturn may not have moved in its orbit but in 2008 Saturn did produce a major storm in its cloud tops that
was unique and 'out of the blue'. In a very short time the storm on saturn began and produced highly charged
particles and immense lightning flashes. I could be wrong but that Storm is still goin on within Saturns cloudtops.

  Jupiter as well has had some new upper atmosphere changes, including a new red storm that formed. Is it
normal ?; who knows, but scientist have said that it is out of the ordinary. Even Pluto has acted up in its own
way by turning a different color in the pictures. To make this shorter; for some reason something is affecting
the planets atmospheres.

  In all likelyhood Elenin is just a comet. Our next test or should I say observation of Elenin will be either when
it gets closer to us than the Sun is to us or when it makes its next Alignment in September. If Elenin is some
kind of exotic planetary body then it will show its hand in Spades at that time.

  For the common man, reading technical papers in a wide area of disciplines and trying to Conjecture what
is going on is all we've got. Throw in the prophecys and eyewitness accounts of past disasters and of course
there are people watching for something like this ! Whether Elenin is the culprit or not it appears that someday
something will come along and totally ruin everybodys day just as it did Tyrannosaurus Rex's day.

 Comets have come closer to earth than Elenin will, but some data suggest that Elenin is different. Mainly the fact
that it is coming in on the Ecliptic as a planet does and the fact that Earthquake data appears to show a cause
and effect relationship. Each person must figure things out on their own by research and the forums are for
people to post SOURCES and their OWN conjectures so that an individual can read them and decide for THEMSELVES.

  I am glad that Leonid Elenin made the orbital simulation that he did ! Did he also make one for a White
Dwarf Star or a Neutron Star thats diameter is about 10 miles across ? Yep, those types are reaching for
straws in applying them to what Elenin may be but ...................................... there would be no other way
for a Comet-like object to affect earth with earthquakes unless Elenin was an exotic type of body.....

  For me, Elenin is just a comet until a big smoking gun appears with definitive proof. For everyone else, Make
your own decision based on the info You find.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 08:35:09 AM by ASEEKERTOO »

Jimfarmer

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 09:48:52 AM »
Another member recently reported observing that Elinin and another comet  passed near to each other without affecting the trajectory of either one.  But I can't find that message now.  The member was the one with a telescope.  Can anyone help?

Also, the other planets of the solar system have been warming for several years.  David Wilcock has much data about that in his site http://www.divine cosmos.com

My computer time is about to expire, so I can't get to a specific site page at the moment, but here is another one:  http://www.iceagenow.com/Global_Warming_on_other_Planets.htm


EDIT LATER:  Oleokie's message is at https://planetxtownhall.com/index.php?topic=2174.msg33594;topicseen#msg33594
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 10:41:34 AM by Jimfarmer »

MrMexBiker

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 09:50:19 AM »
Very thoughtful reply. Did not know about the Saturn storms either. Like the Einstein quote. Is very appropriate here.

Yowbarb

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 03:01:06 PM »
Very thoughtful reply. Did not know about the Saturn storms either. Like the Einstein quote. Is very appropriate here.

 :)
Welcome, MrMexBiker,
 - Yowbarb

rlefew

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 12:17:21 AM »
This is funny.  I just made a post that is almost exactly like yours.  I saw that same computer simulation concerning the unaffected orbits of the other planets, which would seem to disqualify Elenin as anything other than a very low mass, low gravity object.  This is the first piece of information I have found that seriously seems to put Elenin into the realm of harmless, and benign. 

I did wonder if perhaps the inputs in that computer simulation perhaps could be off, or if the trajectory of Elenin, being perpendicular to the Eliptical plane, as opposed to a equatorial approach would perhaps allow it to enter into the inner solar system without perturbing the orbits of Saturn greatly. 

Wouldn't Elenin pull Saturn down, rather than elongating it's orbit, as suggested in the computer simulation, being that it's coming from the south?  That computer simulation of Mr. Elenin seemed very two dimensional to me.

ASEEKERTOO

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 04:42:57 AM »

I did wonder if perhaps the inputs in that computer simulation perhaps could be off, or if the trajectory of Elenin, being perpendicular to the Eliptical plane, as opposed to a equatorial approach would perhaps allow it to enter into the inner solar system without perturbing the orbits of Saturn greatly. 
Wouldn't Elenin pull Saturn down, rather than elongating it's orbit, as suggested in the computer simulation, being that it's coming from the south?  That computer simulation of Mr. Elenin seemed very two dimensional to me.
If Leonid Elenin is worth his salt, and I think he is, then he more than likely got all the inputs he wanted correct
in his simulation. That is assuming Leonid is a real person.  :P
 I saw his simulation of elenin near saturn but can't remember if the angle of view could be changed to show
the relationship of it to saturn other than a 2D graphic. Can't remember. I did view the JPL orbit graphic and
Elenin DOES come in on the Ecliptic and not from an angle to deep into the South  it comes in almost straight on
to Saturn with a very slight southern orientation. 
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=elenin&orb=1
Personally I hope all we see is a pretty light in the sky and thats all. If Elenin wasn't such an odd bird as to
a possible link with inducing earthquakes and its ecliptic orbit, I would have blown it off a long time ago as
worthy of keeping an eye on. If elenin is not the problem in the solar system then what is ?  :)

Ed Douglas

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 08:57:52 AM »
The simulation done was with a mass equal to .05 of the sun. That is a lot of mass. I wish he would do a simulation with less mass, say the mass of 3 or 4 earths. To me, it might be more realistic. The only thing his simulation tells us is that Elenin doesn't have more mass than Jupiter.    ed

ASEEKERTOO

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 04:57:08 PM »
Excellent point.
Sun = 926 Jupiter masses.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Jupiter_can_fit_in_the_Sun

ONE JUPITER MASS = .00107 OF THE SUN.
NUMERICAL FIGURE USED BY LEONID IS .05 OF THE SUN.
.05029 MASSES OF THE SUN IS 47 JUPITERS. [ close to leonids .05 mass in the simulation ]
ONE JUPITER MASS TIMES 5 JUPITERS IS     .00535

 Big difference. If leonind had used 5 jupiter masses rather than 47; what would the data have shown ?

Ed Douglas

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 12:57:28 PM »
Mr Seeker, I believe the simulation would be totally different. In the outer solar system, everything is so darn far from anything else, but as it's entering the inner solar system, facts should start to reveal themselves.  ed

Oleokie

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 06:59:18 AM »
This morning I was playing with the ORSA software that Leonid used.  Using the JPL data of 3/26/11 for Elenin coords and path.  In the first run I set Elenin as a .01 sun mass just to see how much it would mess with the inter planets.  Next run was as a Jupiter size mass and last run was as a earth size mass. It became very clear that our sun on the inner planets has a very good grip on them according to the software.  Yes the .01 sun mass did mess with the earth a lot as shown in the movie but Jupiter size (.0009 sun mass) and earth (.000003) had very little effect as it did move Mars and Earth just a tad more outside their normal orbit and the earth size run had no effect what so ever.   Anyways I know some of you was wondering what the software did when the size was changed and just trying to help show you all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMFLgInBNjQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-JS-u4TI0


Oleokie

Ed Douglas

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 08:25:21 AM »
Than you, Okie. It puts an end to Leonid's explanation of running a simulation, which he did in a very unscientific manner, using only one possible size of object, and a ridiculous size at that.  I don't know what made him guess that Elenin is 1/20th the size of the sun.   ed

Ed Douglas

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 09:17:54 AM »
There is, Erv. I just think the effects of an electrical comet would be different, and a pole shift or some other predicted events would not happen.  Since we haven't seen or experienced this, I am only speculating.    ed

Oleokie

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 09:24:42 AM »
Is this simulation based on characteristics from the "gravitational universe" or the "electric universe". Would the results differ (I think they would). I'm starting to think there's a lot to this electric comet theory.
S/F
Erv


The simulation is based on gravitational not electric.  Using the gravitational simulator software, Elenin needed a mass = to .0004 sun mass or 1/2 the size of Jupiter to have even the slightest effect on the inner planets.

ASEEKERTOO

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Re: Saturn's unaffected orbit
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 10:24:42 AM »
Is this simulation based on characteristics from the "gravitational universe" or the "electric universe". Would the results differ (I think they would). I'm starting to think there's a lot to this electric comet theory.
S/F   Erv
The simulation is based on gravitational not electric.  Using the gravitational simulator software, Elenin needed a mass = to .0004 sun mass or 1/2 the size of Jupiter to have even the slightest effect on the inner planets.
Well done Oleokie ! Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
Watching the video made me remember something about Keplers 3rd Law of planetary motion. Scroll down on
the webpage to reach the area where it talks about the 3rd law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler%27s_laws_of_planetary_motion
It says about the 3rd law: This third law used to be known as the harmonic law, because Kepler enunciated it
in a laborious attempt to determine what he viewed as the "music of the spheres" according to precise laws, and
express it in terms of musical notation."

The real fact of the law is that the formula says that a Planet can not exist in an orbit around a central object
unless it falls within the 'Ratio' number output by the formula. That is to say that a planet CAN NOT EXIST between
mercury and venus; or earth and mars; or mars and jupiter etcetera. The Planets in our Solar System fall within the
parameters of that ratio. [ nope, don't remember the value of the ratio. ] By the way, The Asteriod Belt or
'Hammered out Bracelet' is an area where a planet CAN EXIST based on Keplers 3rd law and evidently once
upon a time one DID.

Ok, So assume that Earth was perturbed by an object passing by like the orbital simulation showed. The fact is,
is that Earth COULD NOT STAY THERE because of the 3rd law of Kepler. Eventually it would settle down back where
it used to be based on the Law. So, the Earth could reel to and fro as the ancients had said in the past but would
go back to a stable orbit after a while. And not only that; but if the Earth were perturbed like that it could cause
it to come much closer to MARS which would put a very large object in our Sky. If Ancients viewed a very large
object in our Skys, Red in color, then perhaps it is possible that a large object did not have to come from the
outer reaches of our Solar System.

Yes, all conjecture and hocus pocus mumbo jumbo but the physics of it happening is possible if something with
small size/large mass zoomed through our solar system and perturbed the orbit of earth. To keep from getting
longwinded I'll stop here.  :)

 

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